Now this is a seriously haunted place!

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Black Prince
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Re: Now this is a seriously haunted place!

Post by Black Prince » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:24 pm

I believe you it happened to you if completely sure in what you heard on several occasions and no one around to do it you know it wasn't the house moving its self and knocking it was as you said a hand knocking on the door three times as you have opened the door to nothing I would say every things alright nothing with bad intent happened I tend to believe we live in time zones and some times time slips a little bit so some one had knocked on your door years before you got there time slips the knock comes now but no one there that's my 10 pence worth anyway :Hat: mike

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Gary Bills
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Re: Now this is a seriously haunted place!

Post by Gary Bills » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:13 pm

"Despite what the movie industry might have us believe, there are no ghosts, just shadows and tricks of the light. If there were then I would welcome one into my home to communicate with it. But if the only thing they can do is play knockout ginger once every few months, they are doubtless benign and have very limited imagination.."

That's an interesting point, Dave. Some cultures think the soul breaks up into different parts at death - and some earthbound fragments of a personality would be, almost certainly, of a limited intelligence: in fact, intelligence would hardly be the word...our 'better' selves go elsewhere, perhaps... This could explain the peevish/mischievous actions of the poltergeist. Other researchers think that ghosts are, effectively, telepathic communications between the dead and the living, and so we see the dead how they imagine themselves. This could explain why ghosts often wear period costume or drive around in phantom vehicles; ride phantom horses etc etc. It might be, then, that ghosts are effectively the projected dreams of the dead....
I don't expect to be believed, and that doesn't much trouble me: but I have seen a full-bodied, solid-looking, full colour ghost - at a medieval cottage in Wales. She was dressed in nineteenth century workaday clothes and, as I watched - open- mouthed and understandably thinking, 'am I seeing this?" - she vanished. But the curtains swirled slightly as she vanished beside them: which might suggest some kind of physical presence? I have no answers - but I do find the whole subject endlessly fascinating.
Last edited by Gary Bills on Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Black Prince
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Re: Now this is a seriously haunted place!

Post by Black Prince » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:57 pm

Wow some interesting thoughts and you have seen some thing too :Hat: mike

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Santiago
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Re: Now this is a seriously haunted place!

Post by Santiago » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:15 pm

Considering that it's now well known scientifically that our minds override what our eyes actually see (the image that travelles through our lens to project on the back of our retinas), it's quite surprising that folk don't see 'ghosts' more often. Put another way, we can't trust our eyes because we cannot trust our brains since once the 'image' passes through the optical nerve bits and pieces of all that we see is edited in the ocular region ; some bits are deleted and some are made up! Given certain moody atmospheric / environmental conditions such as mist and poor light, mixed with a little fear, our minds can become over stimulated and thence readily create editing errors that lead one to see mysterious 'ghosts'. Likewise, sleep illnesses such as narcolepsy, can also lead to the over stimulation of the mind with associated visions whilst still conscious. Interestingly, investigations into 'alien abduction ' have shown that the vast majority of 'victims' when studied in a sleep clinic have been shown to suffer from narcolepsy. Their minds are dreaming vividly whilst they're slightly semi -conscious and not in REM sleep. I suspect those folk that believe in the superstitious etc.etc, are much more likely to see apparitions, than those that do not. Why? Because when they're freaked out by the weather or mood, their brains are more likely to make sight editing errors and substitute a natural thing, such as a weird formation of mist, for a ethereal being, because such a thing exists for real in their subconsciousness.

We all make these editing errors in vision every second that our eyes are open! We evolved that way to enable us to escape from predators without having to lose time in fully analysing the images sent from our eyes to our brains. Evidently, it's much quicker for the brain to guess at what our eyes are seeing. The same argument also holds for all of our other senses ; our brains do lots of guessing and are easily fooled! Moreover, our senses can even get mixed up in our brains, for example, some folk taste in colour, some folk hear what they see, etc.etc. Therefore, it's really not surprising that some folk see ghosts and believe that they really were there. What surprises me, however, that we don't see many more! Because our brains really do make all this stuff up whilst editing all the incoming sensory information! And that's not my opinion, it's a scientific fact. If our eyes were linked to computers instead of our brains we would never see. ghosts.
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Michael
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Re: Now this is a seriously haunted place!

Post by Michael » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:36 pm

Funnily enough Santiago, I just recently finished a book, I had borrowed, regarding the workings of the brain. As you say, the eye and brain work in partnership, to interpret conflicting signals from the outside world. Meaning, we see whatever our brains think we should see. It then went on to explain, that what we interpret as have being been seen, directly effects what we hear, that is, the brain can create false sounds or for example, a false interpretation of what was said. But I think the clincher is, the aforementioned effects are greatly increased, when the individual is under stress, tension, solitude and out of ones comfort zone......
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JAA
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Re: Now this is a seriously haunted place!

Post by JAA » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:46 am

Black Prince wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:24 pm
I believe you it happened to you if completely sure in what you heard on several occasions and no one around to do it you know it wasn't the house moving its self and knocking it was as you said a hand knocking on the door three times as you have opened the door to nothing I would say every things alright nothing with bad intent happened I tend to believe we live in time zones and some times time slips a little bit so some one had knocked on your door years before you got there time slips the knock comes now but no one there that's my 10 pence worth anyway :Hat: mike
There are a few of these types of phenomena that are surprisingly common. Three knocks is one such, as is hearing your name called.
Michael wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:36 pm
Funnily enough Santiago, I just recently finished a book, I had borrowed, regarding the workings of the brain. As you say, the eye and brain work in partnership, to interpret conflicting signals from the outside world. Meaning, we see whatever our brains think we should see. It then went on to explain, that what we interpret as have being been seen, directly effects what we hear, that is, the brain can create false sounds or for example, a false interpretation of what was said. But I think the clincher is, the aforementioned effects are greatly increased, when the individual is under stress, tension, solitude and out of ones comfort zone......
Also, the eyes change the way they operate in low light levels. The sensitivity of the eye increases to make best use of the light and iirc also become more red sensitive, and this has the effect of bringing the eye's 'noise floor' nearer the signal (in signal processing terms the SNR shrinks) as it were. So it becomes more likely that the 'output' from the eye is due to 'noise in the system'. The brain, firmly in 'top down processing' mode, then interprets what appears to be a change in the background (i.e. apparent movement, we are hard-wired to respond to movement, it's consequence of being a prey animal in proto-human days) in the context of the place and it's known properties.

If you're expecting to see a ghost, then the brain will likely conjure one up for you. Some of the little work in the area of anomalous psychology has fairly conclusively shown that that people who believe in ghosts, see ghosts, those who don't er...don't.

You see what you're expecting to see as has been said. Your memory can then play further tricks on you. When you recall something, you essentially dust the memory off, look at it and then re-write it back into memory, i.e. memory consolidation. This can be nicely illustrated by work done on phobia treatment, where a phobic person is confronted with the cause of the phobia and then given a drug to block memory consolidation of the experience. The (cure) effects are quite immediate, although I think the long term affects are still being studied.

It's worse - information pertinent to the experience will be incorporated into the memory at re-consolidation. If you talk about a ghost with a mate and he says; "Ah yes, that'll be the headless nun you saw" *waves hands in mysterious way*, you'll probably incorporate that as part of your original memory (e.g. it was a bit of a vague blob) and next time you recall it, not only will there be a 'headless nun' memory, but you'd swear that's what you saw in the first place...and believe it.

There are other thing going on with the optic nerve that are still being worked out. There are some suggestions that before the information in the optic nerve reaches the occipital lobe, it's 'read' by other parts of the brain and some autonomic reactions take place based on that information. Look up 'blind sight' on wiki as an exemplar.

There's also some fringe work that suggests the brain is not entirely in the head and that other parts of the nervous system contribute to the processing of information. I'm still tracking that stuff down, although I got it from a credible (proper psychologist) source.

I'm fairly sure 'independent non-corporeal entities' don't exist, but ghosts persist in culture and across cultures, so something is going on. I have a idea or two in that respect, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.
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GarryProcter
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Re: Now this is a seriously haunted place!

Post by GarryProcter » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:02 am

JAA wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:46 am
I'm fairly sure 'independent non-corporeal entities' don't exist, but ghosts persist in culture and across cultures, so something is going on. I have a idea or two in that respect, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.
I can't wait to read all about it when your book on the subject is published. :Hahaha:

Seriously, I always appreciate, and am fascinated by the info you dig up in this area, JAA. Look forward to seeing you (or a brain-conjured impression of you) on the bank some time soon.

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