Paste Bait Experiments

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Olly
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Re: Paste Bait Experiments

Post by Olly » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:09 pm

I believe it is the smell, far far more powerful than sight, that attracts fish. With an eel able to smell about 1 part per billion or so a drip in a swimming pool could be detected.

Have you seen the TV program about colour where the diver goes down holding a colour chart? Most interesting which disappears first and last - to humans that is!

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Phil Arnott
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Re: Paste Bait Experiments

Post by Phil Arnott » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:17 pm

Olly wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:09 pm
I believe it is the smell, far far more powerful than sight, that attracts fish. With an eel able to smell about 1 part per billion or so a drip in a swimming pool could be detected.

Have you seen the TV program about colour where the diver goes down holding a colour chart? Most interesting which disappears first and last - to humans that is!
What I quoted was what some anglers wrote about in the past and I personally think that there may be something in it. Yellow is actually the last colour to disappear. Red disappears first at a depth of around 20ft in clear water so yellow is well visible at normal depths. However, I totally agree scent is extremely important and probably has a much bigger impact.

I've long been aware of both the sense of smell of fish and colour underwater. In fact I've gone into both subjects very deeply in articles and in my book on sea fishing.

Colour underwater is not as straight forward as often quoted. Close up, at depths where normal red, orange and yellow disappear, fluorescent red, orange and yellow appear as red, orange and yellow. I first wrote about this property of fluorescent colours in AT in Feb 2002. As far as I'm aware I'm the only person in the UK who has written on this subject.

Interestingly some recent research suggests that some deep sea animals (siphonophores) produce red bioluminescence to attract fish as prey. It had been assumed that the fish could not see red light.

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BobTheFloat
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Re: Paste Bait Experiments

Post by BobTheFloat » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:32 pm

Phil Arnott wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:17 pm
Olly wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:09 pm
I believe it is the smell, far far more powerful than sight, that attracts fish. With an eel able to smell about 1 part per billion or so a drip in a swimming pool could be detected.

Have you seen the TV program about colour where the diver goes down holding a colour chart? Most interesting which disappears first and last - to humans that is!
What I quoted was what some anglers wrote about in the past and I personally think that there may be something in it. Yellow is actually the last colour to disappear. Red disappears first at a depth of around 20ft in clear water so yellow is well visible at normal depths. However, I totally agree scent is extremely important and probably has a much bigger impact.

I've long been aware of both the sense of smell of fish and colour underwater. In fact I've gone into both subjects very deeply in articles and in my book on sea fishing.

Colour underwater is not as straight forward as often quoted. Close up, at depths where normal red, orange and yellow disappear, fluorescent red, orange and yellow appear as red, orange and yellow. I first wrote about this property of fluorescent colours in AT in Feb 2002. As far as I'm aware I'm the only person in the UK who has written on this subject.

Interestingly some recent research suggests that some deep sea animals (siphonophores) produce red bioluminescence to attract fish as prey. It had been assumed that the fish could not see red light.
Very interesting indeed sir :Hat: :read: :Thumb:
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Olly
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Re: Paste Bait Experiments

Post by Olly » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:42 pm

I get much of that kind of data from a book called "Through the Fish's Eye" published in 1976 & written by Mark Sosin and John Clark. The foreword is by none other than the late Fred J Taylor.

Light penetration depths:-
colour----------------10ft---------------20ft

red--------------------6.5%--------------0.4%
orange----------------50%---------------25%
yellow----------------73%---------------53%
green-----------------88%---------------78%

So green & yellow plug would show up quite easily at 20+ feet!

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Dave Burr
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Re: Paste Bait Experiments

Post by Dave Burr » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:32 am

I understand that the light refraction and appearance of colour is different in sea to fresh water.

I doubt that many of us fish water deep enough for our baits to lose their colour. John Bailey dived the Wye quite a lot a couple of decades back and found that in a pool 18' deep, which is like a back hole from the top, he could clearly see the gravel when he was down there. However, bait colour can be useful in some circumstances. I have played around with colouring luncheon meat and it can regenerate the bait when fish have become suspicious of the dreaded pink cube. Sweetcorn, being so brightly coloured, can easily be learned as a danger and fish will avoid large beds yet, a single grain fished over a bed of hemp can be deadly to those same 'spooky' fish.

I once wrote an article on the question of colour, I'll dig it out and put it on my diary page should anybody be interested.

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Mark
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Re: Paste Bait Experiments

Post by Mark » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:47 am

Dave Burr wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:32 am
I once wrote an article on the question of colour, I'll dig it out and put it on my diary page should anybody be interested.
I'd be interested to see it Dave. :Hat:
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GregF
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Re: Paste Bait Experiments

Post by GregF » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:00 am

Mark wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:47 am
Dave Burr wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:32 am
I once wrote an article on the question of colour, I'll dig it out and put it on my diary page should anybody be interested.
I'd be interested to see it Dave. :Hat:
Me too :Hat:
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Phil Arnott
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Re: Paste Bait Experiments

Post by Phil Arnott » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:06 pm

Here's the article I wrote in AT. I was mainly interested in the sea fishing side where there is more depth.

Copyright © Philip Arnott 2002

No part of this document may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopy, recording or otherwise without prior permission of the author.

Coloured Line and How It Effects Fish.

A subject that has cropped up form time to time in the angling media is that of line colour and what effect it may have on catches. It appears from what I have read that no one has any firm opinion on the subject. This is most likely because there is little evidence as to what effect line colour has on fish. As with most things in angling to find a definitive answer is not easy as much experimentation is needed and even when this is carried out, the results may not be conclusive. However, in the case of line colour some experiments have actually been carried out already, not in this country though but in the States.
With regards to the fluorescent colours they are not only highly visible above water but they are also more visible below the surface. This is of course in water with reasonable visibility. Even at a depth of 20 feet where normal red colour appears black, fluorescent red will still show up as red. At a depth of around 60ft only blue and green light can penetrate to this depth but fluorescent orange, red and yellow will still appear orange red and yellow. This is because fluorescent materials alter the frequency of light and change the blue and green light to their own colour.
Where the American striped bass and similar fish are feeding on prey fish it was found that fluorescent blue and green lines can actually attract fish. However the same research found that bright yellow line appears to alarm freshwater bass and reduce catches. In clear water, research carried out with various coloured line indicated that clear line gives the best results where fish have a tendency to scare easily.
How line colour effects the fish we catch on this side of the pond is not known. It can’t be assumed that the European bass react in the same way as an American freshwater bass for example. That fact that the sight of bright yellow line can frighten some species of fish though, does raise some concern. The obvious answer to avoid any possible negative effect is to use clear line, particularly in clear water.
In muddy water blue-green light tends to be filtered out. Fluorescent yellow will not appear to be quite as bright as in clear water but fluorescent red will convert some of the light in the yellow-orange range to red and so appear quite bright but only in the upper layers where some light still penetrates.
When fishing for species that are known to be attracted by colour, then coloured beads or lures can be added to the rig. It is probably best to assume that not all fish are attracted or are indifferent to them and only use them when targeting a particular species.
When I started fishing for bass in the clear waters on the Atlantic coasts of Cornwall and Ireland and long before I discovered about this research, I decided to switch to clear line and make my rigs as inconspicuous as possible. Whether or not this tactic has paid off I cannot be sure but I am confident that it has not had any negative effect.
(Thanks to Berkley and Pure Fishing for helping me track down this information)

Reproduced by Kind permission of Angling Times
Last edited by Phil Arnott on Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dave Burr
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Re: Paste Bait Experiments

Post by Dave Burr » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:12 pm

Nicely put Phil and food for thought. In my experience, when barbel fishing, the line that extends from lead to the surface is the killer. Barbel will actively look for this line and either leave the swim, remain in their safe places under snags etc or, and I have witnessed this, appear to assume that an area around the danger is hazardous so they feed beyond it but with added caution. Even fluoro line is pretty useless as it collects weed and silt particles far more readily than standard mono which makes it stand out like a bulldog's male bits. But it does sink well which is fine whilst it's along the bottom.

Of course Matt Hayes declared that red line 'disappeared' when it reached a certain depth which "made it completely invisible to fish". It was utter nonsense of course as you have said yourself, it just turns black and is therefore the easiest line to see against the light.

I am convinced that yellow is the most noticeable natural colour to fish with fluoro colours, especially pink, also standing out beneath the surface. Sweetcorn is highly attractive but also a very quick bait to blow when used for carp and barbel. Those big beds of freebies soon become danger zones. But smaller amounts are seen as tit-bits that are very apparent and have to be examined. My yellow boilie, as the only bright food item over a dark bed of seeds and pellets, was just too irresistible to the eyes of the fish. And I do believe that barbel use their eyes quite a bit when feeding, it's their only defence agains capture as when they are on top of a bait, they rely on touch and taste. Mind you, they have become pretty good at detecting line that's not firmly on the bottom and will spook in a heartbeat if it is felt.

It would be interesting to try out some of your theories, a line that actively attracts a fish would be a short term edge although I suspect it would soon become just one more piece of learned knowledge to the fish world and we'd be back to square one.

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